But if you compare the time she was seen by the witness to the timing of her arrival at the hospital, it seems to indicate she went pretty fast, butnone of it was explained ordemonstrated properly. I had never heard of this case and fell upon several videos that had me completely convinced DD was a narcissistic psychopath. My website is in the process of being migrated so it has no photos. Legally speaking, we do not go after people because they look evil or crazy. This unexpected proposal took Diane by surprise at a large family gathering. They made her out to be a monster, but in Beckys case, it becomes redeemable. It can safely be presumed, other children told their parents, and that some of those parents reported the disturbing revelation to states Attorney, Prosecutor Fred Hugi. please express them and I will print them. One of the jurors finally declared we started as a group and finished as a group., He also said we dont want to put pressure on the group, we dont want to end up bickering. So the hell with no gun, no GSR, no blood and no witnesses except a sick child who denied knowing who shot them until she could not anymore and happened to be adopted by the prosecutor; making it look like she could never change her mind and reveal that she has no memory of the shooting and maybe have the case reversed. I try to remain objective in spite of the media storm depicting the case in a certain way, which is not accurate in every aspect. Eventually, in early 1983, Knickerbocker told Downs that he was not going to leave his wife for her and that he did not want to be father to Downs children or any children, for that matter. Can you imagine your little boy growing up to beat to death (with his bare hands and boots) Is she referring to her ex husband? And to say that her mental health has degraded is an understatement, but more reason not to keep her eternally incarcerated. Strange how Jagger is pretty absent too except for the few photos where he is wrongly identified as Hugi. And Steven would hunt her down anyway and charm his way back into her life. Or can have an accomplice. Robert Knickerbocker, age 60s, lives in Phoenix, AZ. The grandparents were babysitting the children often and had several children who were well adjusted. The fact that the accused in this case was atypical, makes her the perfect target. Its as if they cant control it. SPRINGFIELD, OR Before Charles Stuart in 1989, and before Susan Smith in 1994, Diane Downs made national headlines by claiming that an unknown assailant had violently attacked her and her family, causing outrage and making national headlines. http://www.glamour.com/story/i-found-out-my-mother-was-a-killer-the-rebecca-babcock-story. And being the mother of three only served to propel Diane in a more manic state. And she clearly remembered the April 1983, rape that Mr. Downs would later refer to as love making. Movie scene alleging that Christie was scared. They examined her clothes also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPLkIcSzftE&ab_channel=DianeDownsArchives. They removed them and proceeded to interrogate the poor girl until she gave them what they needed. Yes, I had to go and sign the lease, yes, sir. As a rule, any child under the age of ten prompts counsel to question the competence of any testimony that child might give. The detectives and the state failed to act properly and it should not be an accepted practice. She said no mother would stop at 10 at night, in the dark, with three young children, to help a Bush haired stranger. Knicks habit of turning on and turning off their relationship was known to Diane long before he admitted it in court a year later (Appendix 81, page 1520, line 21): Q. According to Downs, they had visited a friend in the nearby town of Marcola and were driving back to Springfield along a lonely stretch of highway. To this day, his record is mixed; his law license was suspended for6 monthsin 2011, and there was also talk of a suspension in 2015. 1) Gunshot residue/blood splatter. Her mom is still alive and would love to have contact but respect that they wont. I dont care what Diane Downs says at the parole board hearing, except if she is innocent or guilty. I am also engaged in other wrongful convictions that have taken place within the US. Related to: Dana Knickerbocker. Otherwise you just want people to fill your echo chamber that agree with you, tell anyone else you obviously dont want to debate me.., then ban, then hope for people to agree. Steve knew that Diane had multiple affairs, and that Danny was not his biological son, and he and Diane divorced in 1980. They went through the process which demonstrates a certain level of commitment in itself. But showing no remorse is part of claiming her innocence and part of the vicious circle of parole hearings. Almost from day one, Diane was perceived as a cancer they had to remove. ..it is quite possible if she was tried in todays world, with the evidence they hadquite possible it would of went differentlywe been living in a society that pretty much demand 100% pure forensic evidence provenprobably over 10 years or longer, people expect trials to be that of a law and order TV show..I cant say thats a bad thing, or makes what happened in the 80s on back bad. Mrs. Fredericksons concern for her daughters emotional state was well placed. 41 followers 41 . But Downs' story continued that when she got out of her car to help, the man told her that he wanted her vehicle. I dont. That her child was basically forced to admit that she saw her mom shoot them? * Historical, vital, and court records and search results may require an additional purchase. And her mental health should definitely have been a factor to release her with follow up care. Robert was a married man in Arizona with whom Diane had been having an affair, back when she was still living there. Mainly because the courts have to give every chance possible and all the services necessary to the bio family to try to preserve the relationship. Her lover and former husband testified against her but it did not represent evidence but character assassination. Every single one. Robert L Knickerbocker. I wanted to ask you something on this case. This is also what the state did to her. Just a thought. U seem very one sided on every case Ann Rule has ever written just as u claim she did to u. N her parents didnt want custody of the children just like the father. This case needed to be examined more thoroughly, but the mob mentality didnt allow it. So either way, it would not be so far fetched that someone said he was the shooter.A little investigation would not hurt. What would have been the conclusion to have drawn without this hate campaign? Downs said that she then faked throwing her keys out of the car into some bushes, pushed the gunman away, and got back into her car and drove as fast as she could to the hospital with her gravely injured children. But my beef is with the interference by the media, TV shows and Ann Rule. Yet in their mind, she was already guilty. You mention that her attorney should have raised objections. Melvin Belli How things could have been different. The reason Im harsh is because Ive detected that youve paid for this site and therefore cant be wrong. Downs brought authorities to the crime scene, where police found spent .22 caliber bullet casings, but could not find a weapon. Speculative. After all, Cheryl Downs is basically serving a life sentence with no possibility of parole for her mothers crime. She is supposed to be locked up for murder, etc. If you read the blog, it is because of the lie told by prosecutor Hugi that ignored the assessment of her therapist Dr. Jamison and was condemned by the psychiatrist that they were convinced to find her guilty. Related To Dorothy Knickerbock. I agree in both cases they were high profile cases. The case was so one sided that it is about time some of us bring up the other side. That makes no sense. I think you may be right that she is likely still locked up due to her diagnoses of antisocial, histrionic and narcissistic, but again, no one would care and this crappy diagnosis wouldnt have been bought and paid for if not the high profile nature of the case. It is documented in the blog where I give the source In the 1996 Federal Petition, you can find the Anatomy of Brainwashing that can answer any question on this subject. It was known as Manic Depression. They had him micromanaged, and with the testimony of little Christie they were in business: argumentative And with hindsight, the fact that this young mother had a personality disorder probably brought a lot of drama to the mix. It did not matter that they had no evidence; they did not like her attitude and she was going to pay for it. He still shouldnt have been allowed to adopt them while the appeals process was ongoing, if he had any role in those cases. It is normally done (in fact in many jurisdictions, can ONLY be done) by going through the process in a different state or county then the one the applicant works with. Just before 11 P.M., Downs pulled her blood-soaked car up to the door of McKenzie-Willamette Hospital and screamed, Somebody just shot my kids! Cheryl, seven; lay dead in the front seat, and Christie, eight; and Danny, three; were sprawled in the back seat, clinging to life. Andthe DA adopted her other two children. She was harshly judged because of her demeanor. I watched the highlights of her hearing. I hope this would never fly these days to separate wounded children from the only family members they have. Run Bambi Run! I am not saying she is innocent. Gun shot residue is not always present. Other names that Robert uses includes Robert A Knickerbocker. Someone found guilty of a crime should have a sentence that can be served and not one that is contingent on the remorse shown. Basically, I dont believe the site owner has produced enough proof of anything. I almost felt bad for her.that being she seemed so lost in her lies..she just hangs in limbo now. Instead of talking about her being locked up for so long, answer some very legitimate questions regarding this case. Diane herself stated Cheryl was asleep on the front floorboard completely covered up with Dianes jacket how the hell did a stranger or a hitman(one of Dianes OTHER stories) KNOW Cheryl was there. I also found it interesting that when he had visited Diane in prison, he had remarked a strange air about her; which did not mean guilt. Related To . Therefore, my understanding is that the original sentence is deemed indefinite with parole hearings every 10 years. That didnt seem right so we wrote a letter to Mr Hugi with a request for visitation rights. They rarely get a break. If Oregonians were not all convinced at first, the media and the crown made sure they would be. A long long time ago. Maybe that her mom was obviously not well after spending her life in prison so it would have been a good idea to meet the Downss family quietly and get the jest of it. Modernism mixed with Medieval state of mind. ..maybe it was lack of Internet and cellies *shrug)..years later, my Co worker at burger King (I was 16)told me about the small sacrifices movie she watched the night before. To listen to Christies taped conversation, click below. Two wrongs do not make a right but illustrates that she should have never been coerced before, during or after the trial. Many troubling elements of the case were discovered after the trial, but there was enough during the proceedings to be asking questions. This video of Jagger absolutely looks like the photo that you find on search engines for Fred Hugi. The detective said if Diane would just testify against Steve Downs, she and her children could go home and try to put their lives back together. From what Ive read, she gets a parole hearing every decade and the next time in 2030 she will be 75. Jennifer and Sarah Hart killed themselves and murdered their six adopted children in 2018 by driving their SUV off a cliff in California. Detective Antoine also performed a trace metal test on Diane I S hands to detect the presence of trace metals left after someone has touched or held something metallic like a gun (Appendix 65). USA population seems to shun complex ethical problems preferring to deal with absolute evil in order to exert absolute power to crush it. I like the way you keep an open mind about Diane herself and what she may or may not have been going through mentally. Except for Paul Cortez. Isnt is odd how something we are exposed to as children can stick in our memory? Meaning a trial where lying or failing to disclose exculpatory evidence by prosecutors is not happening. No matter how horrible people think she is. The lawsuit against Ann Rule was thrown out as unfounded because after reading her book they could find no inconsistencies She sat thru the entire trial AND used actual court transcripts. One of the important pieces of evidence was the absence of all but a trace of gunshot residue. She says she was outside the car n watched the man shoot her children n then the only adult n person who could tell police about him only gets a shot in the arm n takes time to bandage her arm. And how the letters became so bizarre, paranoid and psychotic that she told Diane to stop writing her. Even prosecutor Fred Hugi was seen walking the grounds to try to find the weapon. Not unlike Diane, Alice did not want to share her pain in public. Besides, none of those diagnoses are illegal. Steve Downs had allegedly stolen this gun from a friend named Billy Proctor, but after it was found and the ballistics did not match, Bill suddenly remembered keeping it only for a day before exchanging it for another Ruger automatic at a gun show in Mesa; which now meant that the gun that Diane allegedly used to shoot herself and the children, was still apparently nowhere to be found. Not exclusively a USA trait, this happens also in many countries, but in a technologically advanced superpower like USA this attitude is more shocking, and maybe also more worldwide spread. I have researched the case and pointed out discrepancies and the fact that it was not the slam dunk that they were portraying. To have separated Christie from her brother and the rest of the family to be able to get her mom was unconscionable. Another conflict of interest. Robert Knickerbocker in Tennessee We found 5 records for Robert Knickerbocker in Woodlawn, Saint Augustine and 2 other cities in Tennessee. You hit the nail on the head by stating that in the US especially, they seem to shun complex ethical problems preferring to deal with absolute evil in order to exert absolute power to crush it. It has become entertainment and there can only be good, bad and evil. After asking her to have an affair, he kept vacillating between his wife and her. Phoenix, AZ 85006 Map . On May 19, 1983, Elizabeth Diane Downs and her three small children were shot on a country road near Springfield, Oregon. Christie NEVER said she didnt know who did it she was just unwilling or afraid to tell on her mother. Find census, military, and other historical records.*. The whole case is crazy. Blood spatter is not an exact science, and is interpreted differently by experts. So Mark, where are you from? Christie was it though. During a trial, we have to go with evidence only. Strangely enough, a woman who was seen for 8 months by a psychologist and declared to be in shock and suffering from a mood disorder, would now be assessed by the State hired psychiatrist to confirm the label Hugi conveniently made up during trial. Christies response: My mom.. This is not the reason she is still locked up. Diane is not a killer or a liar! I go through every new finding and I point out what was done at trial that did not respect due process. I agree about pregnancy and childbirth affecting women differently, and even having different effects for the same woman with different pregnancies. And she laughed at it by saying it was healthy to want to join the free world, especially if you proclaim your innocence. (Yes in the 1980s a ten yr like myself was not as mature as say todays 10 yr olds. The notes taken daily by the nurses became a point of contention at trial. Evidence from a ballistics expert. It turned out to be a mistake because he was married to a County Circuit Court Judge who would become a colleague of Foote and he had no intention of defending Diane vigorously. 3. Without her daughters testimony and the lies about the gun, they could not have found her guilty in a fair trial. I guess Diane forgot to have that part engraved on the Unicorn. Substituting reasonable inference and evidence for tarot cards? That poor girl. Click to read The Case of Liysa Northon Who Said True Crime Does not Pay? She did diagnose her as suffering from cyclothymic disorder and treated her accordingly. .well yay for youtubelol..is when I first heard her in old interviews. I know several people who know or knew both of the surviving children as well as Diane. Organize and share things you love. What matters to me is that her rights were trampled during her trial. If the goal was to get rid of them, why didnt she emulate her lesser half in this matter? Leslie Van Houten is an example of a woman who probably will never see the light of day because of her high profile status. Wasnt Mr. F supposed to be a child molester? Makes no difference to me. This is what Mrs Downs had to say about the situation. You hit the nail right on the head. (that one is more of a question). Knickerbocker reported to the police that Downs had stalked him and seemed . The underlying basis of this article. Maybe someone needs to read Part two in Dr. Billings in-depth review of the Diane Downs Murder Case in Oregon. She unwillingly followed the cops in spite of being in pain and not wanting to leave the premises. this is your 2nd quote which contradicts the first one .. Lets not forget that she was presumed to have fired a gun 6 times at close range within the confines of a small car. Her daughter told the media she watched Small Sacrifices several times. As far as we know, Robert Knickerbocker, now in his 60s, is retired and living a good, simple life, in his hometown, Arizona, away from the prying eyes of the public. You seem to forget that even a few jurors started by voting not guilty on some of the charges. The fact that she and her brother Danny were eventually adopted by Fred Hugi who prosecuted Diane Downs is the most blatant case of conflict of interest I have ever heard of. This case flew under my radar so to speak because it happened before my time. That is pure bullshit. Which is itself a redundant practise: the blogger repeatedly states that Downs should be released. Again thats opinion, and neither balanced nor objective. In fact, Diane had consulted a psychologist after the tragedy and after months of consultation, she was never diagnosed as a sociopath. Her power to manipulate is why she is where she is to begin with. Lived In Phoenix AZ, Salt Lake City UT, Spring TX . But you dont mention that she again has changed her story.. But Ann Rules utterly biased account is an insult to investigative journalism and there seems to be very reasonable doubt here. On July 21, she was recaptured less than half a mile away from the prison at a house with a group of men. But due to a law enacted in Oregon after she first became eligible for parole, she can now only apply every 10 years. In reply to Nick. You wondered at times, which side he was working for. Danny said several times that a bad man shot them and it was written in the nurses notes, but never that his mother shot him. One of the flaws was the relationship between the DA and the children. Tis why at 10 years old I was hearing about this case in Ohio, and family members talked about it around me.it hit with great force that way. Robert has lived in Tucson, AZ in a single family house with Lori. Once again, Diane said a lot of things. She had a more than competent attorney and a fair trial before a jury and NOT the same judge who handled the childrens matters. Belli filed a motion for a 2-week extension to familiarize himself with the case because he had to be in Italy, and declared Diane innocent in a press conference, but Foote denied the motion and declared you have an attorney, use him.. Diane was right-handed. The last time I checked, it is my website and if you find it tiresome, no one is inviting you to stay or read the content; which you evidently did not read anyway. 2.Diane herself has stated that the shooter was outside the car and shot THROUGH the window, no blood spatter. You have funeral questions, we have answers. Nobody ignored Dianes demeanor. At the point Diane jumped into the car, her broken arm (resting in a sling in front of her) slammed into the steering wheel. I think that you are right about certain things not being ignored. Their goal was to make Dian look crazy, because sane people dont shoot their children. Page 6 of Case History. Downs was expelled from the college after one year, reportedly for her promiscuity, and she returned home to Arizona and reconnected with Steve. Inflammatory and speculative Diane described the stranger that shot them on the road and a police artist came up with a sketch. As it was getting dark and the young ones fell asleep in the car, their mother decided to head home. Dianes father tried to hire Melvin Belli, but the judge refused to give him some time to prepare and come back to the US. Lack of blood spatter is not evidence of innocence Especially when a shooter is leaning in and shooting into a box (car) while standing outside. I watched and worried through her escapeto find her childrens real attackerthat bushy haired stranger . So when Dr. George Suckow from the Oregon State Hospital in Salem was called as a States rebuttal witness and he made a professional diagnosis of Diane as histrionics, antisocial and narcissistic, he openly said in court that he interviewed Diane for 1 hour and read evidence presented by the state to make his diagnosis. They were traumatized and needed familiar faces to feel safe. Comments about the title of the website, the blogger, the bias, details like the word bipolar and when it was used when cyclothymic disorder was diagnosed by the person who treated the subject and there is an affidavit posted. It took months to get Christie to say that her mother was the culprit and that is when they arrested Diane. The DA that put away their mom is not an appropriate placement choice. I am so tired of the victims being forgotten. She did it. It seems that not being American might help us view the case and Rules narrative with more objectivity. Giving to charity is a meaningful way to honor someone who has died. Robert L Knickerbocker, 63. A demonstration in court strongly suggested: Suggested, not confirmed. I recently found your website and have enjoyed it a lot. Robert Knickerbocker first came into the eyes of the investigators when, upon arrival at the hospital to visit her children after the incident, Diane phoned him looking extremely calm. She never hurt anyone in the process of escaping. In my opinion, the investigation was too hasty and only focused on Diane. But to convince this young and vulnerable girl to turn on her mother, they needed to isolate her from her family and work relentlessly on her confession.. Back to DD, I think she suffered some kind of mental breakdown, her account of the facts was never reliable, all the case appears murky, which points to an incompetent handling of the situation by the police and justice system. Shes guilty. She managed to jump in the car after getting shot in the arm. then later you ask how diane didnt have any blood splatter on her when she was inside the car when she shot her kids??? Did CK shoot at car when DD drove away? One of the more bizarre scenes in this farce of an investigation was about to unfold. She should have had the lawyer of her choice and if they wanted to charge her with the crimes, they should have stuck with what evidence and circumstances they had. It wasnt simply her demeanor that got her convicted. David Kessler's top 4 tips for dealing with holiday grief. The towel and a girl who had a stroke, was separated from her family and was constantly questioned without being recorded or accompanied by a loved one and testifying to facts that do not match the testimony of the forensic expert is not being reduced to conjecture? WatchandWager will be operating harness racing at the Arizona Downs racetrack according to the terms of a newly signed deal. Discover work experience, company details, and more. 78 court search results for people named "Robert Knickerbocker" in the United States. Further: Wonder about Justice in Nation with world wide highest prisoner rate. That same gun turned up at a police raid years later in Perris, California, and it did not match the ballistics from the shooting site. But strangely, they took no photos of the crime scene and did not lift fingerprints from the drivers side of the car. As for Diane, give me a break. . All rights reserved. None of this is EVIDENCE of anything in regard to the murder trial, and not once did I read that it was. Robert is related to Linda Knickerbockerpowell and Elna Mae Knickerbocker as well as 3 additional people. Robert Knickerbocker was never a suspect or a person of interest in the case. She is nowhere near being paroled and if she admitted guilt, I am not even convinced they would release her. The fact that she was driving five miles per hour to the hospital says it all as a mother myself, I dont care how hurt or mentally damaged I was, I would drive that car 100 MPH to get my children to safety. No way. The fact that they used her daughter and lied about the gun they could never find makes it a wrongful conviction. Mr. Guilty or not, the case was handled with prejudice and many errors occurred. After six weeks in Oregon where the children were happily spending time with their grandparents while Diane worked her postal route, the incident happened on a dark road that led to Diane being accused of murder and attempted murder. Click here to read the complaint. The best policy for Diane Downs would have been to remain silent, but she fought back and smiled at the wrong time and according to them, enjoyed the attention. And Ann Rule said that the unicorn that was omnipresent in court was part of the premeditation. The lousy men in their lives never took a hit because after all, it was these witches fault. Then, they accused her of shooting her kids at close range. Her flat affect is even more pronounced now and it did her in at the time, but she was lucid enough to clearly see that Rule and the media used Becky for their personal gain. Go reading US: The American Gulag, 26 Mar 2009 Exploding prison populations in the US serve a basic need of capitalism. We already know that. 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